Amashyaka menshi amaze iminsi mu myiteguro y’amatora ya Perezida wa Repubulika n’ay’Abadepite azaba muri Nyakanga uyu mwaka, bikaba inshuro ya mbere ahujwe.
PS Imberakuri nk’ishyaka rya mbere ritavuga rumwe na Leta, ryemejwe nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, rimaze igihe mu myiteguro ngo rizatange abakandida muri ayo matora.
IGIHE yaganiriye na Mukabunani Christine uyobora iryo shyaka, asobanura aho bageze imyiteguro, icyizere bafite cyo gutsinda n’icyo batekereza ku bibazo bikomeye u Rwanda rumaze iminsi ruhanganye nabyo.
IGIHE: Mumaze iminsi mushaka abakandida baziyamamaza mu badepite, byaba bivuze ko ku mwanya wa Perezida ho mutaziyamamaza?
Oya ntabwo turi gushaka abadepite ariko turi kubasobanurira ko umuntu afite uburenganzira bwo gutanga kandidatire ku mwanya utorerwa, haba ku badepite cyangwa ku mwanya wa Perezida nta nzitizi zirimo.
Hanyuma nitumara gukora Inteko rusange ku rwego rw’igihugu,tuzamenya niba hari abifuza kwiyamamaza ku mwanya wa Perezida wa repubulika cyangwa se no ku badepite.
Ko mwatinze gutangaza niba muzitabira amatora ya Perezida, muyagiyemo iminsi yo kwitegura yaba ihagije?
Izaba ihagije kubera ko gutangaza ko tuzajya guhatanira umwanya uyu n’uyu ntabwo ari yo myiteguro.
Imyiteguro twayitangiye kera tugitsinda amatora ya 2018.
Twahise dutangira kwitegura amatora akurikiyeho tuganira n’abarwanashyaka bacu ndetse n’Abanyarwanda.
Nta na rimwe muriyamamariza umwanya wa Perezida, nimwongera ntibizatuma abantu barushaho kubatakariza icyizere?
Ntabwo nzi icyo tuzemeza kuko umwanzuro ufatirwa mu nteko rusange, ariko nzi ko icyo tuzemeza cyose tuzaba dufite impamvu yacyo.
Imyaka itandatu irashize mugize abadepite ba mbere mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko, haba hari impinduka mwazanyemo?
Kubera ko mbere tutari turimo, hari ibitekerezo byacu bitari birimo.
Nko kuvuganira abarimu bakongezwa umushahara, harimo ururimi rw’Igifaransa rwasubijwe kwigishwa mu mashuri yisumbuye no mu mashuri abanza hamwe na hamwe.
Ubwo se kuba Igifaransa cyaragarutse ni ibintu bidasanzwe?
Cyane rwose, kubera ko u Rwanda urabona ko dufite umuyobozi uyoboye Umuryango w’Ibihugu bikoresha ururimi rw’Igifaransa ku Isi (OIF), tukaba tujya tunayobora mu w’ibihugu bikoresha ururimi rw’Icyongereza (Commonwealth); ni ukuvuga indimi zombie zirakenewe cyane kuko igihugu cyacu hombi kirimo , gikeneye kuhahahira, gikeneye gukorana n’abandi batandukanye bavuga izo ndimi kandi utavuga ururimi, ntabwo wabona uko ukorana n’abantu.
Harimo kandi no kuba twarasabye ko ishami ry’ubuforomo ryasubizwa mu mashuri yisumbuye, gufata ubwisungane mu kwivuza bugahuzwa na RAMA kugira ngo abantu babashe kwivuza mu buryo bworoshye.
Ikitaraba kuri ibyo by’ubwisungane, ni uko dushaka ko umuntu agura n’imiti mu mafarumasi yigenga.
Ubu ntibiraba ariko dushaka ko leta yumvikana n’abafite farumasi zigenga ku buryo ufite ubwisungane mu kwivuza bwa mituweli wagenda ukaguriraho imiti ndetse n’amavuriro yigenga ukaba wahivuriza.
Ntabyo mwari mwatanze mu migabo n’imigambi se bitigeze bigerwaho ?
Birahari ariko byarakiriwe. Harimo nk’ibijyanye n’imirimo nsimburagifungo aho tugaragaza ko gufunga umuntu buri gihe atari cyo gisubizo ndetse ko atari nacyo gihano gikwiye cyane cyane ko hari abantu bajya bavuga ngo urugo rubi rurutwa na gereza.
Burya hari umuntu ushobora gukora ibyaha kugira ngo bamujyane muri gereza nyine yiryamire kuko adafite aho arara cyangwa se adafite amahoro mu rugo rwe.
Urumva rero iyo buri gihe cyose ushyizeho ngo ukoze iki n’iki azajya afungwa, nta kintu bimara.
Bizana ubucucike muri gereza, bigahenda Leta cyane kuko iyo dusuye gereza bakatubarira ibigenda ku bagororwa, usanga ari amafaranga menshi cyane.
Hari andi mashyaka aherutse gusaba ko abadepite biyongera mu Nteko kuko n’abanyarwanda biyongereye, mwe mubyumva gute?
Twe ntiturakiganiraho icyo ngo twumve icyo twagifataho umwanzuro ariko kuri njye numva ko kutabongera ntacyo bintwaye.
Icya mbere ndeba ku ireme ry’ibyo dukora kuko iby’imikorere bimaze kunoga neza, nibwo numva twareba ku buke cyangwa ubwinshi bwabo.
Urabona abadepite bari mu nteko, abarimo batavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi ni bake. Tuvuze ngo hongerwe imyanya rero n’ubundi wasanga higanje bamwe, keretse wenda itegeko rihindutse.
Njyewe ireme ry’inteko naribonera mu kuba abatavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi bari mu nteko babaye benshi kuko bituma ibitekerezo birushaho kuba byinshi kandi bitandukanye.
Ku kibazo cy’umutekano muke uri mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo, nka PS Imberakuri mubona ari ikibazo cyakemurwa gute?
Njye mbona nta kindi cyakorwa kirenze uko leta iri kubikora, ari ko kurushaho gushaka ibisubizo kubera ko uretse kuba hari abari kwicwa bakorerwa Jenoside, ariko n’imihahiranire nayo yaradindiye Cyane cyane nko ku Burundi bafunze imipaka, Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo hari izo ntambara; ariko ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda twebwe uko tubona byakemuka, ni ukurushaho gushaka ibisubizo kuko igihugu cyacu turacyizera mu gushaka ibisubizo by’ibibazo.
Igihari rero ni uko bitarakorwa ariko bikwiriye gukorwa; niba ari ibiganiro niba ari ugushaka abahuza hakongerwamo imbaraga.
Abahuza barahari n’ibiganiro byarabaye ahubwo Congo ntibishaka…
Nibakomeze bagire ibiganiro bashake n’ababahuza ariko bumve ko ikibazo gihangayikishije Abanyarwanda.
Ikibazo kigezweho kuri ubu ni abimukira u Bwongereza bushaka kohereza mu Rwanda, mubitekerezaho iki?
Njye natoye yego kubera ko atari ubwa mbere u Rwanda rwakiriye impunzi kuko hari impunzi nyinshi zagiye ziza mu Rwanda kandi n’ubu hari izihari ndetse nta kibazo cyateye. Ibyo kuvuga ko u Rwanda ari ruto rero, byaba ari ugusubira muri bimwe bya kera barugereranyaga n’ikirahure,…
Iyo hari amahoro rero, ntiwavuga ngo aho hantu ni hato ngo ureke gucumbikira abantu. Icya kabiri ni uko ndebera ku rwego rwa politiki cyangwa urwa dipolomasi, nkabona kugirira icyizere u Rwanda mu bihugu byose biri ku isi, bakabona ko ari rwo rwakwakira impunzi, njyewe mbona ari icyizere gikomeye nkabishyigikira.
Dufite abasebya u Rwanda hirya no hino tujya tubumva, ariko nkavuga nti nibura bariya bimukira baje, bakabona ko icyo cyizere cyabaye, ko amahanga yahisemo ko u Rwanda ari rwo rwakira abo bantu; bigaragaza ko na bamwe bavuga ngo mu Rwanda nta mutekano uhari, ngo mu Rwanda abantu barapfa; byaba atari byo ndetse bagaragara ko baba babeshya.
Icyo cyizere rero kirakomeye. Ibyo byo kuvuga ngo nibaza bazatuma abantu baba abashomeri, ibyo njye ntabwo mbyemera na gake kubera ko abantu ni amaboko.
Hari undi mushinga w’itegeko muherutse gutora mu nteko ushyigikira ko abana bafite imyaka 18 bakwemererwa gushyingirwa, warawutoye?
Kuri iyo ngingo rero y’abana bashobora gushyingirwa bafite imyaka 18, njyewe numvise abantu barayifashe uko itari. Icya mbere ni uko hagomba kuba hari impamvu zumvikana basobanuriye abayobozi, ubuyobozi bukemera kubasezeranya.
Impamvu mbona abantu babigize ikibazo gikomeye, ni uko n’ubundi hari igihe hari abana b’imyaka 18 baterwaga inda zitateganyijwe, ariko usanga ku muntu wimyaka 18 mu by’ukuri aba ari mukuru; ahubwo usanga amategeko nayo ubwayo yivuguruza […]
Hari aho bavuga ngo umuntu afata indangamuntu ku myaka 16 ngo ariko ku myaka 18 ntiyashaka kandi yatora; mbega ugasanga ibyo abandi bantu bakuru bemerewe na we arabikora ariko byagera ku byo gushaka bakavuga ngo kereka ku myaka 21.
Icya kabiri; kuvuga ko bakwemererwa kuba bashaka, ntibivuze ko abantu bategetswe kujya gushaka bafite imyaka 18.
Ubu se ko bitari biriho ntihari abantu bagira imyaka 40 cyangwa 50 batarashaka? Ngira ngo rero impamvu yabyo ni ugushaka kuvanamo icyuho cy’uko iyo umuntu yabaga afite imyaka 18 ibindi byose yabikoraga ariko ntabe yemerewe kuba yashyingirwa.
Akantu ko gushyiramo impamvu ni keza kuko hari bariya bita ba “sugar dady” waba ubahaye uburenganzira, bakavuga ngo ntabwo tuzongera gushaka abageni mu bantu bakuru, tugiye kujya twirebera umwana w’imyaka 18.
Oya. Baranabizanye turabyanga nanjye ndi mu ba mbere babyanze. Igisubizo ntabwo ari ukubaha iriya miti. Kuki mbere bitagendaga gutya? Kuki mbere abantu batabaga bafite abana batewe inda ari benshi cyane? Abana bava hasi babatoza indangagaciro nziza. Rero ntabwo icyo ari igisubizo kubera ko icya mbere mu Rwanda ntituragira ubushobozi bwo gutanga iriya miti ku buryo bwiza.
Nushaka uzabigenzure urebe, uzajye kwa muganga ahantu batangira iriya miti uzasanga nk’abantu nka 20 bose babaha imiti isa, niba ari ikinini ubwo bose ni ibinini , niba ari urushinge ubwo bose ni urushinge kandi abantu baratandukanye. Niyo mpamvu uzasanga twebwe ababyeyi turabizi uzasanga umuntu yaragize ingaruka cyane kubera iriya miti.
Ntabwo rero turagira abaganga ngo babanze bagusuzume, wenda wowe kubera ufite amaraso y’ubwoko runaka, buri wese afite uko ateye, umuti wahwana n’umubiri wawe ni uyu. Ibyo ntabyo twari twagira.
Tubifite bwo wabyemera?
Oya nabwo ntabwo nabyemera […] Impamvu ntabyemera ni uko abantu batera inda bariya bana akenshi bafatwa kubera ko bateye inda. Nibura uriya muntu wamuteye inda niho uhita umufatira.
None rero nibabaha iriya miti, nta muntu uzongera gutwita bazagenda babangiza ariko ikindi uzaba ubujije inda ariko ntabwo uzaba ubujije uburwayi.
Uzaba ubujije se Sida? Ese biriya birwara bindi byo byandurira mu busambanyi uzaba ubibujije?
PS Imberakuri ni rimwe mu mashyaka yacitsemo ibice, habaho igice cya Mukabunani n’icya Ntaganda, nta mbogamizi bibagiraho nk’ishyaka?
Nta n’ikintu na kimwe uretse wenda umuntu uba ushaka kubigarura ariko nta muntu n’umwe wagendeara kuri ibyo ngo hari uwavuze ibi n’ibi.
Ubu se reka nguhe urugero. Ntihari ngo Guverinoma ikorera mu buhungiro? Bibuza se ko ibihugu byose byemera Guverinoma yacu y’u Rwanda?
Ntibabibona se ko ari igihugu gifite gahunda, gitera imbere, gikora nta muntu ujya uvuga ngo kiriya gihugu gifite ibibazo kubera ko hari abantu biyita ko bari mu buhungiro bafite guverinoma yabo. Ni nk’ibyo.
Twitege ko rimwe muzigera mwiyunga…
Ngira ngo mujya mubibona aho tujya guhurira hose mu nama dukora tuba turi benshi cyane. Kuba umuntu umwe rero yaba atakiririmo nta gihombo dufite pe.
Abishatse ubwo yabisaba kuko ishyaka dufite imikorere yaryo, ubwo twaterana tukiga ubusabe bwe.
IGIHE : Imyaka mumaze mutavuga rumwe na Leta mubona hari icyo mubona mwongereye mu migendekere ya politiki y’igihugu ?
Cyane! Kubera ko hajemo ibitekerezo bishya.Urabona igihe cyari cyarashize abarimu barahejejwe inyuma, nta muntu ubavugira. Njye nabaye umwarimu ngira ngo murabizi. Iyo wabaga uzamuye ngo ko mutatwongerera umushahara, barakubwiraga bati abarimu ni benshi cyane mu Rwanda ku buryo hataboneka amafaranga yo kubongeza. Baba bavuze ngo barongeje bakongeza ho nka 10% kandi niba uhembwa 45000 Frw bakaguha 10% ni 4500 Frw.
Hari harabuze abantu batinyuka kubwira leta ko ibyo bintu atari byo, ko ingaruka z’ireme ry’uburezi dufite akenshi bikomoka ku kuba abarimu badahabwa agahimbazamusyi gakwiye bagahabwa agaciro nk’uko bikwiriye binatuma leta imenya ko hari irindi jisho rireba.
IGIHE : Hanze raporo za Human Rights zivuga ko mu Rwanda nta batavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi….
Icyo tubivugaho ni uko Human Rights Watch yo iba ishaka ko tubeshya.
Bigeze bakwegera?
Kenshi cyane. Niba hari ikibazo gihari, iba ishaka ko tubeshya. Ntabwo bashaka ngo ukivuge uko kiri.
Bashaka ngo wongeremo ku buryo ibintu bigararagara ko byacitse.
Ikindi cya kabiri abantu bavuga ibyo ntabwo baba bari mu Rwanda. Iyo rero utahibereye ntabwo umenya ikirimo nyine ariko twebwe imikorere yacu n’iyo dufite ibibazo turabivuga. Iyo dutanze igitekerezo nticyakirwe turabivuga, nta na kimwe tutavuga ku buryo ibyo bya za raporo abandi baba baza gutanga, kereka ari twe tubyivugiye. Ukuri kuba ari ukwacu.
Ariko ko uri umuntu mukuru, umuntu yaza kukuvuganira ngo nta mahoro ufite? Ubu naza nkakubababarira ngo ndabona udafite amahoro kandi wowe uvuga ko uyafite?
Oya ntawe bapfuka umunwa. Igihari muri uko kutavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi, uko ugomba gukora , icya mbere ugomba gukora Opposition yo mu Rwanda, ntabwo ugomba gukora opposition yo muri Amerika cyangwa opposition yo mu kindi gihugu iki ni iki. Ni opposition yo mu Rwanda.
Utekereza neza igihugu urimo amateka cyagize n’uburyo mbese gikoramo.
Opposition yo mu Rwanda ntabwo dushobora kuvuga ibintu tudafitiye ibimenyetso, bya bindi byo kuza ukazana ibihuha ugashyira hariya, ntabwo ariko tubikora twebwe.
Hari ikindi gitekerezo cyatanzwe mu minsi ishize cy’uko urubyiruko rurangije amashuri yisumbuye rwakwemererwa kujya mu gisirikare, niko mubibona?
Abantu batanze icyo gitekerezo ubanza ari muri PSD ariko buriya ubanza bari bacyizeho neza, bareba impamvu yabyo ariko njye nabonaga ziriya ngando bakora zihagije.
src:igihe
